A Climate Change with Matt Matern
Climate Podcast

You’re listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern, your host, and I’ve got two great guests on the program, Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson, was the executive director and Chris is a director at Visions2030, which is a nonprofit. They are creators of the Lumens Lumisphere experience. It’s kind of like The Sphere in Las Vegas.

If any of you have seen that or been to it, it looks a little bit like a geodesic dome created by Buckminster Fuller I understand it was but you’ve had a lot of connection to Buckminster Fuller, so it’s no surprise that it kind of looks like that. Um, you know, there’s an interesting story about connecting with Chris I met him at COP28.

In Dubai, we were, he was sitting down to have a bite at Bi D, and we sat down next to him, we started talking and, and told us about this amazing project that you’re working on. And also told us about where Al Gore was speaking that night. So we got to see outdoors, and we heard about this project. So Dubai, you know, had its moments for us. So welcome to the show, Chris. And Elizabeth.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having us. Yeah, really appreciate it.

Tell us a little bit about how this started was but what were what was your vision behind this? And what’s the why behind this project?

Yeah, well, I’ll start with just Visions2030. And it’s Visions, plural, 2030, just for anybody who wants to look us up, visions2030.studio. It is an initiative that was founded three to four years ago by Carrie Lovelace, who is sort of a brilliant visionary cultural impresario. She has a background as a composer, a playwright, a curator, a journalist in the contemporary art world. And she was really responding, during what she likes to say, the high Trump era of the kind of, you know, negativity, and the kind of catastrophizing of the future that that we were all caught in.

And I think that that kind of perspective on the future continues today, she was interested in gathering a group of people around her to really try to create cultural intervention strategies and experiences that will, would help people to kind of flip the narrative to focus on more positive solution-oriented visions for the future. So that was that that was the sort of baseline impetus for starting this initiative.

She brought people in, like myself, who spent quite a bit of time running the Buckminster Fuller Institute, Chris, cultural producer named Yona backer, John threat, who is a visionary, hacker, and many other people to begin to imagine what we can offer in terms of sort of cultural production to help reach people and move them toward considering more optimistic solution oriented visions for the future.

I think that’s a great project. And I, I find that my own personal experience was wanting to do something for many years, and just not taking the first step because I had great ideas kind of grandiose plan of contribution, but not that first step. And, and from what I saw of the work that you, you all are doing, it’s kind of bringing people in to take that first step and power them to take that first step or, and that certainly is something very important. And in particular, I know you were targeting 18 to 34 year olds, who have a lot of climate anxiety and, and putting this on a college campus.

I understand you did the first one at Cal Arts here in California, and I saw pictures of it and you had a whole whole bevy of people who were involved in this project, tons of nonprofits as well as other people. Maybe you can explain how that how that took off. And that, what was your experience there at Cal Arts?

You want me to take this jump in here?

Yeah, exactly, um, just to say that we were invited by CalArts to, to create a sort of festival, really focused on experiences around optimistic narratives for the future. And there was, it was a multimodal 10-day festival that sort of took over the campus of Cal Arts. And there were many different ways in which people were invited to consider new ideas, new solutions, new experiences, about our shared future.

So one of those experiences, sort of the main on the main soccer field of the campus was called the Luma sphere experience. And that’s what you were referring to earlier, Matt. And that was a immersive media environment created that took place inside three geodesic domes, where people were invited to go through a sort of meaningful kind of sort of initially sort of a context setting dome where we sort of shared with people sort of this is the state of the world today, this is the state of our sort of emotional psychological relationships to the to the state to the multi valen crises that we’re facing, you entered into the second dome, where you were sort of taken on a visual and audio journey into the heart of your own imagination, and asked to, you know, shed your fear and anxiety and consider what the future that you want to see looks like.

Then people travelled into a third dome, where they were using iPads to and prompted through a series of questions, to share what that vision might look like, we then used AI software to take those responses and generate an actual image of what that future that you as an individual want to see looks like that those images were then displayed on a gallery inside the third dome. So that you could relate to this image, you could talk about it, share it with other people compare your vision for the future with others right next to you.

And then you were invited to go into a fourth area where you were met with guides who helped you unpack your vision for the future. And in that space, you were invited to take part in conversations with leading experts, people in the field of nonprofits, and other realms really at the forefront of climate change solutions and strategies.

In the Los Angeles area, there was a bookstore, there was a resource library online that you could use to sort of consider, Well, here, this is the vision I want for the future. I feel now like I can participate in bringing that future into the world. And here are the resources that I can take advantage of to begin the first steps of imagining how you might implement that vision.

Well, that’s, that’s great. I mean, I was relating to something that you had said about the kind of the Trumpian era. And I think that if there was a silver lining to that era was that I think it jolted a number of us kind of out of bed and out of our slumber of hey, we need to get into action. And and there are things that we can do independent of Washington to have autonomy in our life and to clean things up and to change.

Change our own actions and change the local governments and the state governments and yeah, kinds of things on that level, that that do make a difference. And I believe that it did, certainly woke me up a little bit when I think there was a bit of a slumber during the Obama era thinking it’s it’s being taken care of.

Yeah, they got it right people back there and Washington and you know, they seem reasonably competent, and they’ll take care of it, which you know, is not really an accurate picture of what we should be doing because it’s going to take everybody involved in this right to make this work. So Chris, tell us a little bit about your place in this in the organization and, and what time for us

well, I I will give you some kudos for, you know, sort of taking that first step and for all the good work that you do, because it really, you know, taking action really does sort of alleviate mitigate climate anxiety, right.

So all the studies have shown that, the best thing to do is to get involved in that reduces or ameliorate climate anxiety, which is really what we’re trying to do within the context of the Luma sphere experience.

And so, we’re trying to, as you were saying, you know, this climate solutions do exist out there, right, it’s just essential to, you know, mobilize more people more collective will more collective action. So, you know, the Luma sphere is, is about helping people change their climate mindsets from negative to positive and solution oriented, and potentially mapping out their own sort of individual action plan.

So in the context of my role at Visions2030, and sort of after, you know, we met in Dubai, and we basically had a very good trial phase for the Loomis hemisphere experience at CalArts. And so we decided to keep going and to really try to scale it. So that’s why we were in Dubai, just building bridges and talking to stakeholders and figuring out our sort of strategic plan.

And that’s what we’re doing right now. Figure out the partners what we want to do. And ultimately, we want to just mobilize a greater army on the climate front. So we’re, we’re building a strategic plan, I in particular, my focus is on gait and engagement, who we need to, to talk with who we need to partner with who we can get sponsorships of. And ultimately, we want to take the Luma sphere experience, we want to take it nationally throughout the US, we want to take it globally.

We also are looking at potentially creating multiple Luma spheres, because there are, you know, force for scale. But also, there are possible ways to actually modify the experience for certain purposes. And then we also want to do some sort of digital or or app gamified app version. So it’s really exciting. And the impact we have is we just want to scale it and do our part to get more people involved and being productive on the climate front.

Well, that’s great. You’re listening to A Climate Change. I’ve got Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson from Visions2030. We’ll be right back in just one minute to talk to them about the Luma sphere experience.

You’re listening to A Climate Change this is Matt Matern, and I’ve got Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson, with Visions2030, the creators of the Luma sphere experience well, right before we the break, Chris, you were explaining that you’re looking to roll this out to a larger audience. And I think that would be great. I was thinking that cop 28 There were certainly lots of people who were potential funding sources, a lot of those big oil companies and the like, as well as sovereign wealth funds that, you know, that were run by the Emirati probably have tons of money to invest in this.

And I was kind of impressed by how much work they were doing to make their own environments more livable, because they’re being hit on the front lines with temperatures that are essentially unlivable. They’re waking up to the fact that if we just don’t do anything about fossil fuels, they’re going to have real estate that’s uninhabitable for the most part. So tell us a little bit about what the next steps look like for your organization. And, and where do you see it going?

Sure. Sure. Thank you. Yeah, so So Dubai was a great experience for us, you know, the, the real point of going was to, to meet different stakeholders just to get smarter on the space to, to see about potential partnerships and, you know, funding sources and also just to get good advice. You know, we’re, we’re building an advisory board right now with some, you know, people with unique perspectives, but also people who can make connections. And as I mentioned, it’s sort of a strategic plan. So we’re talking to a variety of folks within the context of the United States.

But as mentioned, we also would like to take it globally. So you know, a future cop would be would be great to have the Luma sphere experience down the road, but those are, that’s something that we’ll deal with eventually. But we really just want to, we want to bring it to the US and go to multiple locations, you know, for, say, six to eight weeks in high traffic areas and work with brands to potentially sponsor it.

But the, the ultimate point, right as people go through the Luma sphere, and to sort of look for the future, and to determine the future and to have sort of their own skin in the game, these of the sustainability and climate is to get more people through it and to get more people involved. And then at the end, they can sort of build their own sort of action plan. So Dubai was Go ahead. Sorry, no. So So Dubai was a really great opportunity for us to, to meet with various leaders. There’s a lot of follow up that we’re doing. And now we’re kind of building out our action plans for the future for the next few years.

That’s great. Elizabeth, I think you had met with Al Gore while you were there at in Dubai. What’s your connection to owl? Tell us a little bit about that.

I didn’t have a formal meeting I just said hello. He is a I’ve met him before in the context of my work at the Buckminster Fuller Institute. Buckminster Fuller, for those of you who don’t know who he was, was a 20th century futurist visionary, kind of one of the first global systems thinker who kind of popularized this notion of kind of thinking global act, act local. He’s best known for inventing the geodesic dome.

And he was a huge kind of data geek, who felt that any solutions that were going to be effective in the future needed to be informed by trends of the past and the present and to analyze where they’re going forward. Al Gore was particularly inspired by a concept of Fuller’s called the geo scope, which was a an idea to take the real time data feeds from the scientific community about the flows of resources happening on the planet and use it as a kind of decision support tool.

Al Gore’s initiative, while he was vice president that he launched, called the Digital Earth initiative was directly inspired by this idea of Fuller’s for the GAO scope. And so I’ve had a little bit of interaction with him over the years, and I was just able to say hi, and, you know, just remind him of our connection to Buckminster Fuller, and he’s, it he he brought him to Congress a couple of times when Gore was a Congressman from from Tennessee, and he’s a he’s just been a D deeply, personally influential figure in Gore’s trajectory.

Well, it’s interesting, and I think it probably, you could say, relates to Gore’s current work, which is to monitor these hotspots where there’s lots of admissions, and that’s kind of a data crunching process, which I think is pretty cool.

Right. Right. And I think there’s a, I mean, the key, the key tool here, is, is, you know, finding ways to meaningfully visualize and communicate this complex data so that regular people can see it, use it and, you know, orient themselves and their actions going forward with relationship in relationship to the real data about what’s actually going on planet wide, but most importantly, in your local community.

So I think that’s part of what this new company, it’s a for profit company. I think that Al Gore was at COP, in no small part to announce the launch. And I might be wrong there. But I think that’s part of why he was there.

Right. Yeah, I believe that. That sounds accurate to me. I’m not an expert in that area, but I did hear him talk about it at that. That speech that we were probably both at. Yeah. I think that it kind of goes to this point that relates to the Luma sphere experience is that you have creative thinkers like a Buckminster Fuller, and they’re opening up space for somebody like a gore to step into.

So that’s you don’t know how it’s going to affect downstream. But you may have some young people going through there that may end up being the next Congress people. The next senator yours in the world. And this touches them in a way that they, they start to act.

And we see a real application for when we take it, particularly in the United States, to communities on the community level to get more people involved, right. But also, this is something that Elizabeth is emphatic about the data that we get from, from people’s interactions with the Luma sphere, you know, for their vision for the future, can really help in planning local communities from the sustainability side, but can also just get us a lot smarter.

While we are also presumably, you know, getting more people involved. So that’s another thing that within the context of the lumen sphere experience can be very valuable and a really unique and productive, you know, application of it. So that’s another thing that we’re going to be talking to partners and sponsors will tell us about the Earth Edition was birth.

So that was the festival, that the context for the Luma sphere, which was one component of this 10 day festival, that took place at Cal Arts, which is the shorthand for the California Institute of the Arts, which is located in Valencia, California, about 30 miles north of LA, of La proper. Cal Arts is, you know, world renowned for the sort of radical artistic ideas that came out of there in the 60s and 70s, they’ve had a huge influence on contemporary art, and culture.

They’re most well known for their animation department. So they were a sort of perfect venue for us to experiment ourselves with, with pulling together a kind of multimedia multimodal experience for visitors to come and engage with ideas about more optimistic climate futures, there was a music program, there was a contemporary art exhibition, there was something called the Zukunft garden, which was a kind of immersive experience in inside a theater, where it was sort of a invitation for students and other artists, performers, cultural makers to come and in sort of DIY fashion, share their work, share their ideas.

You know, it was it was designed in many ways to emphasize the joy, the the opportunity to connect with others that we need to keep at the forefront of our experience, as we address these very, very challenging times. Climate change was, you know, an eco-consciousness was the framework for Earth Edition, but I would argue that we’re, we are as a human community, facing multiple interrelated crises simultaneously. And so we were offering a set of experience, experiences to help people stay engaged, stay strong, stay optimistic, and keep at it and invite more people that have more to the planet to create.

Yep, yep. Right. I think so. That that’s a good point that all of our problems are interrelated. So the climate problem is not unconnected from issues regarding democracy or issues regarding mental health of absolutely, and social justice. And it is, it is one big hot mess, but, you know, very all you can’t solve one of these problems without fundamentally solving the entire system that has, you know, brought us to, to this to this place.

And, you know, our Visions2030’s perspective on this is that, you know, a we need more people in the game, the we need to be focusing on solutions, what you know, we’re very, very good as a culture to critique the present, analyze the past, we’re not quite as good at envisioning where we want to go. And, you know, we need these aspirational futures to inform us as to how to how to move forward and to inspire people to get involved.

Well, that’s a great goal, and I’m so completely in alignment with that one. You’re listening to A Climate Change, I bet Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson from Visions2030. And we’ll be right back in just one minute to dive a little bit deeper into this conversation.

You’re listening to A Climate Change. I’ve got Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson directors, Executive Director of Visions2030, and nonprofit creators of the Lumisphere experience. And we had talked a little bit about this before the break, Elizabeth maybe you could tell us the connection of the severe in Las Vegas and the Luma sphere.

Sure, we had the great good fortune to partner with a company called minds over matter. They were formally known as obscura digital, and we are pioneers in the immersive media space, they had a studio and laboratory for immersive media experimentation in San Francisco for for 20 some odd years. They worked with MSG, the developers of the sphere in Las Vegas to create the sphere, their technology, both from a hardware and a software perspective is the kind of engines that are that are running that fantastic experience.

And I believe they probably did some of the content production as well. So they the their sort of visionary leader is a guy named Travis Threlkeld, who I knew during my Buckminster Fuller days, and it was just a real pleasure and thrill to work with them to create the Luma sphere experience. And I’ll just say that, that the the idea for the journey through these domes and the sort of, you know, genesis of the whole idea came from Carrie Lovelace, the founder of Visions2030. And she really worked shoulder to shoulder with mines over matter to create the experience.

That’s great. I mean, I was, as you were talking, I was thinking about the power of an experience I had recently, which was going to the Planetarium at the New York natural history. Yeah, you know, I kind of had like an hour or two to kill, and I was thinking, Oh, I’m gonna go to the Guggenheim. But you know, it was a little bit too far. So I’m like, oh, okay, I guess I’ll go here, and thinking, Oh, it’ll just be old dinosaur bones and stuff.

There’ll be this amazing planetarium experience, and I just walked out of there, just so kind of, inspired by, by this experience. And so trying to relate that to I haven’t been through the Luma sphere experience. But those types of experiences can kind of like shift your consciousness in a in a really powerful way.

That’s exactly what it’s for. And just to the, to, you know, your point about earlier about, you know, it’s going to take everybody to get involved in the game, if we’re going to solve the problems facing us. This is a, this is our contribution in a way, you know, from the cultural sector to try to meet people where they are, you know, really addressing in a meaningful way, the fear or the anxiety, the shutdown, that comes from being overwhelmed by all the negative news and through this experience, helped to move people forward in ways that we can’t predict.

We’re not trying to tell people what to do, or how to respond to the issues we are facing, we’re just trying to create an experience that opens them up a little bit to consider new ways to engage as individuals and as communities.

Thinking about the future they want, yeah, through the experience, and the more you do that, you sort of recalibrate you’re inspired. And then at the end, they can sort of map out their own plan if they choose through these different different guides who will talk to them about their experience in the Luma sphere, but then also can provide them with resources and sort of mapping out their own climate plan again, if they choose.

Yeah, well, I was kind of struck by Hey, I came out of that planet Tim, planetarium experience and I was one had this sense of energy inspiration, but there wasn’t anybody there to kind of collaborate with you want the experience and, and you’re left a bit more inspired. But it’s more powerful if somebody’s there to kind of okay, well, we’ll take the next step, hey, where can you channel some of this energy that you that you’ve gained from this experience.

And so that, I think is a brilliant part of what you all have designed to, to get people involved and envision this future. And I, I want to follow up on this point that Elizabeth you had raised about the weakness of our, our future game here in the US or maybe in the world in general, and, and how the data that you are collecting can help, you know, create how people create a future that is one they want to live into.

Sure I what we’re doing, what we have the opportunity with the Luma sphere experience to do is, I like to think about it, as you know, a tool to take sort of a census on the future of individuals living in a certain community at a certain point in time. And in the third chamber have this experience the third dome, we invite people to select amongst a number of different possible scenario variables for the future, that inform the AI that creates the image of their future.

We then at the, you know, for example, at CalArts, we have, I don’t know three to 5000, people who went through the Luma sphere experience, those choices for the future comprise a kind of metadata set that gives us some insight into what people in Santa Clarita County in September of 2023, want for the future.

There’s also three to 5000 images of what those that group of people wants for the future. We feel that that is a very powerful insight generating set of data that we are in the process of talking to social science research experts, as well as others about how we can turn that data into meaningful information that stakeholders in a community might be able to use in positive ways to come together and talk concretely about what they want for the future. I just sorry,

I’m going on here, but it just would add that so we got a significant amount of feedback from people going through the Luma sphere, the three dome chamber, and then the what we were calling the mentoring tent. And they described the experience as a third space, which is a concept that a lot of people are talking about now, which doesn’t really exist anymore in our communities, at least in the United States.

And the third space can sort of generally be defined as a space for communities to come together and connect, to talk about their lives to talk about their, their communities, what’s going right, what they want for the future, etc. Those kinds of spaces. You know, are few and far between used to be, they used to be prolific.

I’m sorry, go ahead. Yeah, yeah,

Absolutely. And, you know, there’s been this notion that the digital realm is our new third space, because we can all get together and connect and feel much more close. And, you know, on the same page about what we’re doing in the future, and the truth of the matter is, is that that isn’t that is not the case. And one could argue that the digital space is actually kind of alienating us from each other.

And so that that is also you know, one of the things that we’re, we’ve created here with the Luma sphere experience, and we want to offer to communities as we take it on the road, plus that dataset that stakeholders in that community may find useful.

And that can also be modified in macdon. Three that yes, queries can be modified based on the issue or the community.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that obviously, the digital world has had its positive effects, but there’s no doubt that it can’t completely substitute to deal with personal connections. And I think that this show and my connection to Chris ICAP 218 shows Hey, when you’re in the real, and you see somebody, you know, share kind of a meal with them and you get to know them a little bit, then it just opens up a richness that generally doesn’t happen in the digital world.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, just separately from a personal observation, I have three kids. And, you know, I know that the less they’re outside, the more that they’re online, the more that they’re in front of the screen, you know, your mental health. You know, there’s a clear correlation studies prove that out, you know, mental health issues.

So you’re listening to A Climate Change, this is Matern, and I’ve got Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thompson, from Visions2030. We’ll be right back in just one minute to talk more about the Lumisphere and creating a future that is one that we’re going to be excited about living in.

You’re listening to A Climate Change, and this is Matt Matern, and I’ve got Chris Hayes and Elizabeth Thomas Thompson from Visions2030, the creators of the Lumaspher experience and, you know, let’s talk a little bit about imagination. I understand that this is a big part of, of the work that you’re doing, and why is this so powerful? And why do we need to encourage imagination? Or was that?

Well, I think, you know, it’s fundamental to the vision of visions, 2030 And certainly, the founder visions, 2030 Carrie Lovelace, you know, it, the buck stops, stops for her and all of us with the power of the imagination, and we’re living in a time when, you know, one could argue that, you know, we don’t have a lot of visionary ideas for for the future, percolating in the kind of mainstream media and, and in our lives, and the, it is going to take the, you know, wild and crazy and visionary ideas that come from the wellsprings of our imagination to move forward in positive directions.

And so, Visions2030 is all about that, and creating experiences to recognize, celebrate and catalyze the artistic imagination, which we believe lives in everybody. And by that, I mean, not that you are an artist, or that this is the domain only of artists, but that that kind of up that that capacity to innovate, to think about things in new and different ways to ask challenging questions, to provide new kinds of insights and answers to where we’re going to go for the future lives in everybody.

And our programs and experiences are designed to help people reconnect to that part of themselves in order to make new contributions to where we’re going in the future.

What I think that if one follows kind of mainstream media a lot of times are just the herd thinking that that all of us are probably guilty of, of engaging in and just doing what people around us are doing and that kind of thing. Not much, it’s not very imaginative living in the same way everybody else is living or driving, you know, a big car and doing you know, eating a lot of meat and so on and so forth. It’s just well, that’s just that isn’t very imaginative.

That’s plowing the ground that we’ve all tried before. And I was reading a book by Rick Rubin about creativity and, and artistic creation. I personally think that everybody is a bit of an artist and we’re all creating our own lives.

So you have a chance we have a chance to design our life and that in the community around us. If we’re engaged in if we’re thinking if we’re coming into it newly if we’re, you know, around people that are helping and encouraging, inspiring those, those possibilities. And I see what you’re doing with a Luma sphere is being a catalyst for that and, and maybe Chris, you can talk about how you see this rolling out in the future is your strategy guy.

Yeah, you know, that’s the beauty of, of I think the programming and and the different things that Visions2030 Promote support funds is that it does, you know, help people to tap their own imagination, their own artistic, you know, ability, whatever that is. And you know, Elizabeth use the term catalyzed, which I think that’s really what what the Luma sphere is all about. And because people take various different things from the three domed experience, and then talking to a mentor at the end, you know, like I like I said, we really want to at the end of the day that are our goal is to scale the lumens sphere.

And by that, we mean, we want more people to experience it, we want climate conversations to go from, you know, the negative to positive, more solutions based, right, you talked about the media coverage. While I know a lot of people who just really have shut down on the news, unfortunately, because of you know, some of the political news, but also, because on the climate front, on the environmental front, all you hear are just horrible things that aren’t necessarily solution oriented, so people just shut down, that creates more climate anxiety, right, more paralysis and less people involved.

And so we just hope to be part of that solution of getting more people involved. Addressing climate anxiety by helping more people get involved in that inherently and what the academics say, is what happened. So we’re looking to create some unique partnerships. Get some funders out there from the corporate side, we want to be involved in some major global events have the Luma spear at some major global events where we have a lot of traffic, a lot of influence, and, and a lot of promotion and a lot of people experiencing the Luma sphere.

And then also, as we discussed, there’s some really unique ways in which the Luma sphere experience can be used and bumped at the community level, which we think can really be productive. If anyone, you know, we have a website, vision 2030 dot studio, so people can get more information. And if it’s okay, I’m gonna give my email address for folks who want to get more information. It’s Christopher Hayes, [email protected].

Sounds great. Well, I was as you were thinking about it, I was using my imagination to say, hey, what about the major foundations in out there, the Ford Foundation, MacArthur absolutely hates all of those, as well as the government. I mean, the government has funded the arts before and this isn’t just purely an arts project. But there is an arts component to it. What are your ways?

We’re looking at it, there’s a particular relationship we’re considering with a with a state in the Northeast, where we partner related to what we’ve been discussing, but also involving some of the students at a state university so that there’s a knowledge transfer skill set knowledge transfer there, with some of the data that is collected, and also some of the formulation of the Luma sphere. And the queries that we mentioned in in dome three are designed and involved by some of the students. So there’s a lot of synergy there.

So there’s so so many applications, it’s really about, I’ll just throw another one out there that we’re looking, you know, there’s some large scale malls in the United States that have a lot of real estate that is not being used, right. And they want to bring in unique experiences to drive traffic.

And so there’s some malls in the country that are thriving, but there are many that are not. So that’s just another area that we’re looking to potentially deploy the Luma sphere also, oh, maybe multiple Luma spheres down down the road. Yeah. So there’s a lot of different opportunity.

Well, it seems as though they’re just anywhere, there’s a lot of people would be a good opportunity to have this experience shared and too, as Elizabeth said, open up people’s imaginations going forward. Tell us a little bit. Elizabeth, your experience of cop 28 And how this was playing out with the people that you were talking to there, and where you see, where’s your vision? Where’s your imagination of where this?

Well, I would just say that COP was I’d never been to a COP before. So it was it was pretty wild, I think with with the context of where it was held and who was organizing it and hosting and everything all of I was very well versed in the controversies going In around all of those ideas, but, you know, to your point that we you mentioned, I think before we even started that, you know, it’s going to take everybody to be involved in this issue if we’re going to specifically climate change if we’re going to evolve things and, you know, having the oil industry host pay for and run the COP negotiations.

You know, is is a kind of necessary strategy, though, you know, to meet the goals that we’ve set ourselves for as a global community with all the controversies you know, involved in that. I came away optimistic I, we spend a lot of time in the innovation zones with the philanthropic and the investment sector and the amount of innovation, the amount of creativity, imagination is alive and well in those sectors and for technological development for Social Innovation. For you know, you name it, it’s being considered or there’s already a working prototype, exciting and very inspiring.

Well, speaking of exciting, inspiring, it’s been great to have you and Chris, everybody check out Visions2030.studio, and it’s a great nonprofit, and, you know, promote this Luma sphere experience. I think everybody will benefit by it. So thank you again for your great work and thanks for being on the program. And tune in next week, everybody