You know, I just kind of want to tee this up. It saw something on the newswire, uh, that you were at the 21st science and technology society meetings in Kyoto, Japan. Uh, that sounds pretty exciting. Uh, without, without further ado, uh, good morning.

Good morning. How are you?

Good, good. So, uh, yeah, I just, uh, maybe we can jump in right there and just tell us a little bit about, uh, those meetings.

It sounded, uh, pretty exciting stuff. Okay.

Well, you know, I was there primarily to, to meet with the Japanese government and some of the industry with the idea we’re attempting to, uh, fully utilize hydrogen in the city of Lancaster. And they seem to have the most expertise and the willingness to want to do this. I don’t see any solution to what’s, I mean, if Florida today didn’t wake everybody up, you know, I mean, it’s happening much faster than I think anybody thought it would.

But the goal is, is to do two things. One is to make Lancaster powered by hydrogen. It’d be solar batteries and hydrogen. They work, they work together. Uh, but there really isn’t any reason to be on the grid anymore.

Uh, and our projections are that we could reduce the utility bills in half. At the current cost of producing hydrogen, and we’re gonna be producing 20,000 tons of it, uh, as soon as we line up the off takers.
That’s incredible. Reducing electricity bills by half. I think that’s a, that’s a headline in the making there.

Uh, tell us more about I mean the, the, uh, fossil fuel industry, they, they’re doing everything they can to slow it down. I mean, I, I think they all recognize that we have to do this. They just, they just don’t have the sense of urgency they need to have, uh. You know, it’s discouraging.

It’s discouraging because it may already be too late, you know, the, the issue has always been the warming of the oceans, because once they warm, it’s a thousand years before they’ll cool.

And, uh, everybody seems to be surprised at just how fast they’re warming.

Right. Yeah, it’s, uh, yeah, it’s talking to anybody in the science community. They’re definitely alarmed by what is happening, and you certainly see it in the hurricanes that are hitting Florida one after another. If that doesn’t wake people up, I don’t know what will. Um, Kind of pivoting to the other topic at hand, which is, uh, we’ve got an election in 27, 25 days, whatever it is.

And, uh, give us your assessment of the candidates and their views on this existential crisis as we’ve talked about in the past. Okay.

for these alternate, alternative energy programs, I don’t know what he’s going to do. Uh, the, uh, anything could happen at this point, except I think from a California point of view, nothing major is going to change.
You know, the governor is going to double down on it because he wants to be president in four years. You know, I mean, this is not an issue that should be polarized, but it is.

You know, the Republicans are taking this view and the Democrats are taking an opposite view. And it all comes down to who’s paying for the campaigns.

You know, and right now the fossil fuel industry is pouring billions into these elections. And, uh, they, I mean,I

So he has four and a half years, or she has 4 1. 5 years to, to increase the value of the stock enough that they get a golden parachute, you know, they still get to use the corporate plane. They still get, you know, I mean, it just on and on and on. What it is. And so their view becomes a four year view and and you know our ability for self deception and known seems doesn’t seem to know any bounds at all.

And so we keep putting it off and putting it off and putting it off. Now, watch what happens on on Florida and Carolinas. We’re at a place now where people not only have to evacuate, they should start thinking about moving. How many of these can you tolerate?

You know, the, uh, how many times can your house be blown away and you have to rebuild it, you know, uh, the insurance industry is leaving FEMA’s out of money, uh, now imagine that on a worldwide scale, we’re talking.

A couple billion people are going to be migrating. Can the world withstand that? Probably not. Probably not. Some of these countries have nukes. They’re not going to go quietly into the night.

Yeah, when you talk about, uh, the potential for migration is, is huge, like in Africa. And we’re, we’re in a country that is the richest country in the world and we’re sustaining it, you know, barely, uh, when these hurricanes occur. But talk about a country that doesn’t have the kind of infrastructure and social safety net and all the rest of the things that we have that kind of hold it together.

Um, there’s. The potential for migration is, is gargantuan, we’re seeing it, you know, I mean, I’ve always been a big proponent of the wall, not for today. You know, I think we need the labor force today. Uh, but there are 600 million people in Central America. And the projections are within the next 15 years, it’s uninhabitable. Where do you think they’re going?

I mean, it is beyond catastrophic at this point.

right? So, uh, what can we do? Uh, if we were, if you were kind of czar for the day, what are the things that you would, uh, say we should be focusing on?

Well, you know, I don’t know that it’s necessarily a lack of will anymore. You know, the federal government is putting a lot of money into it. World governments are putting a lot of money into it. It’s just, I think they’re, they’re putting it in the wrong place. This only works if local towns and cities embrace it.

understand it and want to do it. You know, it’s, you know, I’m also involved in biotech and longevity research and, you know, the really effective, uh, interventions now, the further into the cell you can go, the greater the impact. And I think the same is, is, you know, a massage is not going to make you live longer. And, uh, the, uh, the same, you know, I think the metaphor works for this.

We’ve got to change business models and we’ve got to change them today. We don’t have a lot of time, you know, the biggest, the biggest obstacle to us having all housing net zero today is that who owns the house, you know, and who pays the electric bill, they’re usually two different people, 10 years ago, when we created the first affordable net zero house, you know, and it’s been operating now for over 10 years, the, the owner of the house loves it, you know, but it costs 20, 30,000 more, you know, Now, but if you’re not, if you’re not having to make an electric bill payment, you still, that’s out, you know, it’s really only what is the cost at the end of the month that you’re concerned about.

And so, but the way it is now is you rent a house. You pay the electric bill. So where is the, the person who builds the house incentivized to spend that extra 30, 40, 000? There’s no benefit. We just have to change the business models and you could do that by legislation, uh, but they have to change rapidly.

Right, uh, in California, we’ve, we’ve seen a change in terms of, uh, the solar rooftop solar policies. Um, what are your comments on that?

Well, actually California just took our ordinances and made them state law. You know, and, and I think in another year or so, then all new construction, new housing construction will have to be net zero, uh, where you store it with a battery and, you know, you have the solar panels and, and, but that all came from Lancaster.
They just took our ordinance and they say it, they tell us, you know, thanks.

Yeah.

The, uh. And we’re, you know, we’re certainly making progress, uh, but it’s, I’m afraid it’s too slow. I mean, I’m very discouraged is what I’m saying, uh, it, um, by the time the, everyone wakes up to the urgency of this, it may be too late.

Right, you started as mayor in 2007 or 2008, 2008, so you’ve been working on this for now 16 years and have made some tremendous strides, uh, Lancaster is now a net zero city or is it close to net zero.

We’re a net zero city, meaning we produce more electricity from the sun than we use. We’re still tied to the grid. And, you know, there’s lots of problems with being tied to the grid. And one is resiliency if something happens, you know. Uh, like City Hall stays up and running. The, and what I’m attempting to do is all essential buildings will convert as quickly as possible to hydrogen.

Now that we, we are able to produce the hydrogen and fill the tanks, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, It is. It’s the only solution I’m aware of. Now, I am encouraged that, you know, because of the, the thirst for power from the AI, uh, installations that are going in, they’re reopening nuclear plants would be preferably the way to do that would be to build the smaller plants that, you know, they come from the factory already self contained and you just, you know, Send them back to the factory, you know, most of the problems that come with nuclear have been solved is certainly in regards to a safety issue.

But again, you know, you can’t build a nuclear power plant in less than 20 years. If you have the government wanting to do it, you know, it’s too late. It’s too late. The only, the only solution we have now is batteries, solar, and hydrogen, and you need all three.

Well, about wind?

Yeah, you got wind in there. I think wind has been pretty well maxed out at this point.
Uh, you know, it, all of it has to come together, but it has to come together now. You know, now California has made incredible strides. We, we produce more power in California than any other source from solar, you know, and wind. The, uh, It’s the storage of it that’s the problem. You know, you got to turn on those gas power plants or coal power plants in Utah, uh, because of the storage, but hydrogen solves that problem.

And it also, it does amazing things in regards to natural gas. You know, today, this moment, we could bleed 20 percent of the gas that goes into your house could be hydrogen, uh, which would have a substantial impact on the footprint.

I think, uh, one thing for the audience to kind of recognize, maybe we can walk, talk through it is just kind of how you’re taking the electricity from, uh, the solar arrays and creating this green hydrogen. And then the green hydrogen is essentially the storage, uh, place akin to a battery. And then you can use the green hydrogen when, when you need it.

Right. Thank you. I’m going to occur is you, you have the solar, like City Hall. This is what we’re doing there. We have solar panels. We’ll have a battery and then we have the hydrogen. And with the hydrogen, you can keep generating the electricity without being on the grid and the excess energy you store in the battery.

You know, it’s nothing really complicated. Uh, you know, the fuel cells, they, you know, you can take a relatively small fuel cell and power a neighborhood, power a housing tract, you know, just with just one, you know, the, uh, the uses are endless cleaner. And it, it’s, uh, from all our projections, it’s going to be cheaper.

As soon as we scale it up, the, the problem that we’ve had with hydrogen is everybody was looking at automobiles. Well, no, no, eventually, but no, I mean, it, it’s going to take so long to get that infrastructure into play. Like in Japan, there’s only a 6, 000 Marias. You know, and that’s where they, they came from, but where it really works is powering trucks, taking care of the ports.

I mean, the ports just pour carbon into the atmosphere. You know, you can take a fuel cell that’s big, plug a ship into it. When it comes into port and you can turn those diesels off, you know, cause you got, otherwise you got to keep them running direct to just to keep electricity in the ship, you know, uh, It, it’s just a question of getting the factories up and running to build the fuel cells.

Uh, and, you know, we’ll be doing that in Lancaster soon.

Yeah, tell us a little bit about that. I was reading about, uh, the Alliance for Renewable Clean Hydrogen Energy Systems called ARCHES, uh, and I believe that’s through the Department of Energy and, and, uh, Lancaster is one of the first cities that, uh, First public hydrogen utility in Lancaster. Tell us about, uh, Arches and your work with the DOE on this.

Well, you know, Arches is a federal program and has all kinds of, of, um, restrictions and, you know, like we have, we have a, a plant coming in called Element. That they were given 30 million. Now it’s a billion dollar plan. Now, 30 million is what sounds like a lot, but in a billion dollars, it’s it’s not. And because of the delays that would be occasioned by it, they’re actually considering not taking it.

You know, because we could do it faster without it. And the profitability is glaringly there. You know, I mean, right now, you know, they’ll say as well, hydrogen’s Yeah, it is. That’s because somebody charged you that.

That’s not what it takes to make it. We, we, we signed a deal with Element to take, to buy it at 550 a kilogram, 550 a kilogram.

As soon as we put a, a, a fuel cell on your, on your house or in your neighborhood, you can cut your electric bill in half. Now, right now in Lancaster, we’ll, we’ll install solar panels. With the batteries, I guarantee you, this is what your monthly payment’s going to be every month. It’ll never go up for 20 years, and all of this has a warranty for 20 years, and the city backs it.

Uh, you could do that today, you know, it’s just getting people educated to do it, but again, you know, it’s, it’s the business model that comes if you’re renting, you don’t have the authority to do that. You don’t have the ability to do that. You know, most of our landlords don’t even live here. We don’t have any contact with them at all.

The, uh, uh, we just have to get a lot more aggressive with legislation.

It is, it is pretty crazy. I know that the, uh, utilities have pushed back against you and against Lancaster in you kind of trying to cut them out of the, the pie here. And, uh, where, where are you in that, uh, in that process?

Well, you know, I’m very aware of who I’m dealing with, and it’s not nice, and it’s not legal, you know, but they’re, they’re coming at me in 20 different ways. But, you know, you just get up in the morning and you do what you can.

Well, that’s, uh, that is the challenge. Uh, well, I think that, uh, what you’ve done in Lancaster is really a model for what other cities should be doing. And, uh, tell us, uh, if you see other cities picking up what you’ve, uh, what you’ve done. And, uh, our other cities running with it.

I’m, we’re partners with them now, and they’re running with it, show that have expressed interest, you know, we manage the alternative energy for 11 cities, you know, because it’s all done on the computers these days, you know, we don’t have to be there. And, uh, So, yeah, other cities are reaching out to us.

As to the hydrogen, you know, there’s just not enough awareness. There’s not enough understanding of it, you know, because it is, it’s all different. It’s a way of doing things. It’s an incredibly small molecule. It’s not like natural gas. It’ll cause metal to unbridle, which means you got a lot of maintenance comes with this.

The, uh, But, you know, we’re moving, we’re, we’re, we’re building the Hydrogen Events Center and Training Center in Lancaster, and we have deals with the labor unions to train a workforce on how to use it. It’s coming together, it’s just not as fast as I’d hoped.

Right, I, um, I was reading that Denmark has, you know, kind of on a clean energy trajectory as well, and they are getting most of their benefits. renewables from wind and their, their goal is to be kind of the Saudi Arabia of hydrogen. So they’ll have all this extra wind power, they will create clean hydrogen, and then they will, they will take it and ship it via pipeline to Germany for, to Germany to use for their heavy industry and, and the like.

Okay. budget of any city in California. Our bond rating is the best bond rating you can get.
That certainly wasn’t true in 2008. We have a reserve of 40%. Nobody has a reserve of 40%. You know, it has been nothing but value to us, and it will continue to be. Uh, The, uh, and for, and for that, I’m, you know, I’m excited, but as far as saving the planet, I’m becoming more and more discouraged, although the planet’s going to be fine, not going to be any people on it, but Well, I think that’s what we need to connect is profitability and, uh, renewability. And, and, uh, I think what you’ve done so beautifully is connected those two.

Yes, this does not, we do not have to sacrifice for this. In fact, it’s a, it’s an improvement in our, in our standard of living substantially in Lancaster, and it will continue to do that. It’ll continue to grow. You know, it’s been nothing but positives, nothing but positives. It’s just people have, don’t understand it.
They’re suspicious of it. Right, right, rightfully so. I mean, you know, there’s a thing called a hydrogen bomb. I just wish it had a different name. But, you know, we’re dealing with that too. We go into the grammar schools and we have this thing that turns the water into hydrogen. Right. You know, and then it powers this little car.

So we teach those kids. The kids go home and teach their parents. You know, it’s a reverse engineering thing there. Uh, and you know, the resistance to it is, is evaporating. They see the benefit of it. Uh, you know, the biggest building in, in the Antelope Valley will, will be the Paris Center, and it’ll be totally, Powered by hydrogen.

What is the Paris Center going to do? Is it going to be an event center or…

Yeah, it’s a multi use building, but you know, primarily it’s going to be an event center. It’s huge, you know, we’ll have all kinds of things. Basketball tournaments, pickleball tournaments, you know, you can put a lot of people in there. You can put on a lot of events of any kind, shape, or size, uh, but ultimately it’s designed to teach people that this really is what you want to do.

And then if there’s a disaster, you We’re ready. We’re up and running, you know, it’s got a kitchen. It’s got all the facilities you need. All we have to do is put the beds in and we’re up and running it. Uh, you know, I mean, you realize the nation of Japan gave us 30 million to to further design of that.

That’s how advanced it’s going to be.

Tell us, uh, you know, I, uh, was Republican for a long period of time, probably, you know, almost 40 years and I’ve kind of moved away from the party in large part because of the environment and a large part because of Trump. You know, because I feel like those two things have infected the party that I once, uh, knew and loved, uh, in, in very deleterious ways.

Um, You know, still hanging in there.

Trump says some terrible things, but so do I, you know. It’s kind of important to recognize a lot of what he’s doing is just getting elected now. Uh, the, uh, but it’s troubling. I’ll give you that. It is troubling. But is the alternative better? You know, I mean, certainly, uh, uh, Kamala sounds good.

Says the right things. She’s presentable. But. Look what’s happening. We’re running, we can’t field a police force. Can’t even field one at this point. You know, we’re running guys at, at 16 hour shifts. They’re falling asleep, driving into buses, you know, the mental health. The people, when you work them that hard, it is deplorable. And then we’re, we’re, we rush to prosecute them every time they make a mistake.

You know, the justice department spends more money prosecuting police officers than they do criminals. Well, they do what their bosses tell them to do. You know, I mean, right now it’s, I don’t know. I think that they, both parties are so extreme. It is very difficult to make a decision. And it, it. It’s not encouraging.

Yeah, I guess from my, you know, my perspective, uh, Kamala is better on the environment and, uh,
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But…

And those are my two big issues. Uh, and I feel like, you know, I’ll hold my nose on other issues, um, and hope for a better day and maybe hope for a more functional Republican party in the future.

I do some, see some signs of, um, Republican congressmen who are saying, Hey, uh, we will not repeal the IRA because of the benefits to our communities and our states that. It has helped fuel, uh, you know, projects that are valuable for our, for our society. So that, to me, is helpful. Okay.

You know, I, I, the people that really are running, not running, I mean, the staffers, you know, for Congress and senators and all, they get it. They’re smart people. You know, you have to be, you have to be mentally challenged not to see that we are facing climate extinction, you know, now, six, seven years ago, that wasn’t the case.

It was still up for debate, you know, but that debate has ended. And the problem is, is the oil industry is what fuels the Republican Party. Without the oil industry’s money, there is no Republican Party. Uh, It, uh, you know, it’s, it’s our greed is, is, is going to be the death of us.

Yeah, I read an article about these two, uh, Republican oil billionaires in Texas that are just primarying out anybody who doesn’t accept their view of the world a hundred percent. So, guys, 95%. You know, you know, rock rib Republicans. They’re going after them.

Yes, that’s right. That’s absolutely correct. It’s hard to, to see a light at the end of the tunnel here. It really is because every year it seems to become more and more corrupt. And by corrupt, I mean, you shouldn’t be able to buy Congress, but every year they are more and more for sale. You know?

Uh, and, you know, the last time I was out there, it’s, it’s shocking to me, the leadership of both parties, how uninformed they are, you know, I don’t, most of them don’t read, you know, it’s what, whatever Facebook serves up to them. The, really, the only problem America has is, is the stupidity of our elected officials.

Yeah, it’s a, it’s a big problem. So, uh, you know, I guess one elected official at a time, uh, you certainly have led the way and done some incredible things in Lancaster and, you know, looking forward to, to hearing about how they are coming for me.

The state government has copied some of the legislation that you’ve had in Lancaster. Um, are they copying enough of it and which pieces do you think they should be copying to, to take us to the next level?

Actually, you know, the, the net zero ordinance was, was net zero housing. It was pretty huge. And the fact that they, they followed through with that really surprised me. The, uh, right now I have to have these projects up and running so you can see that they work and you can see the, the balance sheet, you know.

Like one of the things we’ve done is we’ve started our own public utility and it’s a hydrogen utility, which means everything has to be transparent, you know, if we’re buying hydrogen at 5, 3 or 1, that has to be disclosed.

Thank you very much. That changes the whole market because now they can’t, you know, they can’t give you this bullshit. It costs 33 a kilogram because it doesn’t, uh, and you know, you, you alluded to something earlier in Denmark, you got all that excess power that it’s now going to waste, you could be producing hydrogen with it.
It doesn’t have to be green.

What you want to do is you want to, you want to, uh, incentivize green more than, than blue hydrogen. But that power is there, you know, it’s going to waste right now. You know, those power plants actually work much better if you, if they run at a same speed 24 hours a day. Rather than going up and down, up and down, and it wears them out, you know, causes far more pollution.

And if you, if you brought hydrogen in as the way to store the electrons, because that’s all you’re doing. I mean, you’re not actually storing electrons, but you know what I’m saying.

Yeah. If, if, if you did that, Everything is better. Everything, you know, uh, but you know, even the power plants, you know, they’re, they have 40, 50 year lifespans, but they shut them down in about 15 years.

You know why? Because they build another one, they get more money. It’s the stupidest business model you could imagine. But when you got the American taxpayer paying for it, who cares? It seems to be the attitude.

Um, I, I love your idea of the public utilities because, hey, we’re, we’re getting hosed by these guys.

They’re, they’re, you know, billions and billions of dollars of profit that, uh, I wish I had some cheerful news for you. I really do. I wish I could say we solved it. And the only thing I can tell you is we have solved the technological hurdles. We could fix this today.

It would take 20 years for the effects to, but we could, we would no longer be looking at climate extinction. If we expanded this through the country and therefore the world, because the world tends to do what we do.

Uh, we have the technological ability to do it. We just don’t seem to have the will.

that is a start, that we have some amazing scientists who have worked Uh, you know, tirelessly on these problems to solve them and, and we’ve got the ability to solve it. So, you know, maybe it will take things like these hurricanes to wake people up. I, I don’t know if it will, but, um, we’ll see.

I totally agree. I think we, we deceive ourselves because we are doing a lot, but it’s not enough. And every scientist that’s involved in climate extinction will tell you that. It is not enough. You know, we have to go faster. Uh, and it has to be total commitment. And the thing that’s so frustrating to me is how profitable it’s been for us.

Not only are we solving a problem, but the returns, we didn’t have to wait 30 years for. The returns were almost immediate, you know.

Well, that’s the story. That’s the story that I want to tell. And I think that’s the story that has the upbeat moment. This has the potential to be profitable as well as save the planet and we just have to follow the, the model that you guys have created in Lancaster and say, this can be rolled out. You did it in a, in a city of 170, 000 people.

It’s not a, a tiny town. It’s a substantial population, the size of most cities, the median size of most cities in America, you know, yeah. That was the goal, was to give people a model they could follow. And, you know, but what surprised me was how little it took. One is fixture permit process. You know, it shouldn’t take six months to permit solar panels on the roof.

When I found out that’s what it took us, I just sent an email. From now on, it takes 45 minutes. Now it’s less than 45 minutes. That’s all it took. It, it’s, you know, quit looking for ways to say no to everything. If it’s energy, start saying yes, because we got to explore new avenues. You can’t wait now. I think it comes down to this, what, what building.

inspectors and all want is they want very clear that this is how this works. Nobody’s going to get hurt with this. This works, right? And so that requires 10 years of it working. We don’t have 10, we’re going to have to take some risks and you’ve got to get them up and running now. Because every mil, every day you delay a project, that project costs more money because you’re holding the money.

Well, it’s great to have you on the show again and uh, great to check in with you as to what you are doing and I think that uh You know I look forward to the next three and a half years of you really putting the pedal to the metal at Lancaster and seeing where I hear they’re going to recall me now, but I just got elected and they want to recall me.

That’s fascinating.

As always, Matt, I love, I love talking to you, although today was kind of a downer, wasn’t it?
well, great having you on the show as always. And, uh, look forward to, you know, talking with you in the future.

Thank you.

I know you were going after, uh, one of the utilities for the, um, the
of them.

Yeah, the 88, uh, deaths that they, 1. 8 billion was the settlement on that. 1. 8 billion, and it didn’t scratch the surface. That’s how much money’s in this. You know, what company can survive a 1. 8 billion hit without going bankrupt? Well, the oil industry. Semper Energy Company, you know.