A Climate Change with Matt Matern Climate Podcast

You’re listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern, your host, and I’ve got a great guest on the program, Cecilia Rios. Uh, excited to talk to Cecilia. She is also a podcaster, uh, of some note. She’s, uh, Her podcast “Sustainability defined.” She’s done 90 episodes, so that, uh, makes her a pro.

Uh, After 90 episodes, you, you, uh, advanced a pro status. Uh, Cecilia also has, uh, worked at Zero Waste Solutions when she was in her graduate program at Georgetown and has recently graduated with her master’s. Congratulations and, uh, welcome to the show, Cecilia.

Thank you Matt. Happy to be here. Uh, thank you for having me on the podcast. Very excited to talk about climate change and. All things related today. But to disclose, I haven’t done 90 episodes. I just took on this podcast from Scott Breen and Jay Siegel. They started it nine years ago.

Shout out Scott. Shout out Jay. And me and my co-host Nathan, took it on in January. So overall, we’ve 90 episodes, which is really exciting, but I haven’t been a part of those 90 episodes all the way.

Okay. Well, I appreciate the humility and the, um, I, I’ll still throw you into the pro uh, category since you’ve been doing it for six months, but, so, uh, tell us a little bit about your journey in the, in the domain of climate and what, what led you to this place and kind of what was your inspiration along the way?

Yeah, great question. I love asking everyone this question on my podcast as well. It’s a lot of fun to learn how everyone got here really, but starting from scratch. I always loved PPS as a kid. Um, I loved watching the shows and then took an environmental science class in high school. My teacher was really co cool. Her name was Miss Tibbits. She had like a pet Komodo Dragon in the class. She was really cool and always loved science.

She bridged every science subject together in that one class. I loved that about environmental science, so I decided to pursue my Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Studies at Baylors and Bears and got really interested in that intersection between how corporations in the world of business can really shape how we mitigate and adapt to climate change.

So decided to pursue my Master’s of Science in Environmental and Sustainability Management at Georgetown, and I just graduated in July. I finished the program. Um, it was a lot of fun. I got to learn a lot of things about that intersection. So it was really cool. And now I am starting out a new position at EMS, and it’s gonna be at the end of this month. I’m really excited.

Well, that’s great. Congratulations on, uh, landing a job in, in the environmental field and pursuing your passion. And I think that’s a great, um, inspiration for other young folks out there who are looking to contribute and have their voices heard and shine their light out there.
Yeah, totally.

I gather you grew up in Texas?

I did grow up in Texas. I also grew up in Mexico. Um, my parents are from Mexico, so I lived there until I was nine and then I moved to Texas. Um, then I lived in California and now I’m in DC. So been a little bit of everywhere a little bit.

There’s a lot of good things happening in Texas. There’s a lot of wind and solar that is in Texas, and, uh, so that’s exciting. And, um, Let’s see where it goes. Uh, next, I guess, uh, tell us a little bit about your studies as a master’s candidate or master’s student at Georgetown, and what were the things that you were, you were studying there? What were some of the things that impacted you most in doing that program?

Yeah. Um, I really loved this Master’s program. It was actually a newer program. We were only the third cohort to graduate from this new program, and it was an even split between the McDonough School of Business Business and the Earth Commons Science School. So you take. Classes from both. And we took anywhere from accounting, economics, finance to environmental science, corporate sustainability strategy, leadership.

So you really develop a lot of, I guess, presentation skills. Um, you take on a capstone project and you work in a real world consulting project, which was cool with companies like L’Oreal and Zero Waste Management. So it’s, it was really nice. I get a lot of LinkedIn messages about the program and people that are gonna be going into the new cohort, and I just wanna say it’s gonna be great. And everyone in the program was a lot of fun.

We all became like a close group of 40 friends because we all had the same passions, but we were incredibly, incredibly diverse. So the conversations that we had to have in class were. Really entertaining and engaging, and everyone brought in a different sort of perspective because there would be people that had engineering degrees or law degrees, pol, political science degrees to environmental science marketing. It was a lot of fun.

That’s, that is engaging. Um, yeah, I think that the multidisciplinary approach to learning is, is really important and, and it, as you said, kind of expands your point of view when you’re engaging with people who have different experiences. And, uh, so what was your undergraduate background?

My undergraduate background was a Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Studies. I was really interested in environmental science, but I was also interested in sort of the anthropology and sociology and how culture, how culture play such a role in climate change and how people respond to some of the challenges that come with it.

Always. I always found that very interesting, which is why I did the studies side of it. Um, and then I did a double minor in business administration because again, I was interested. Of the role that corporations could play in fighting this good fight, um, and earth science minor as well. Um, because again, I love science and I took some really cool classes under that earth Science minor. I took mineralogy, which was really fun. My professor was a lot of fun too. Um, and he was very different, which I think is what makes professors fun.

Well, uh, that’s, that’s great to have a diverse, uh, set of experiences that you had a chance to chose into a lot of different studies. And I guess my, I’ve had a number of guests on the program who’ve talked about why they think. Eventually we’re gonna solve these environmental problems is because they make sense monetarily, they make sense economically.

And because of that. Business will eventually adapt to them. And, and the, the companies and the, the countries that are doing that are ultimately gonna succeed and, and that will drive change. I had, uh, Senator Ben Allen who had. authored some legislation here in California about, um, plastics and, and trying to phase out single use plastics and uh, there’s a lot of pushback from industry on that topic.
Uh, what, what’s your experience in, in studying this as to ways that we can move in that direction and, and, uh, have a, a more sustainable economy?

Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question. So I know that change is really hard. Um. For everyone and ruling out or phasing out single use plastic is going to be a hard challenge to take on. But I think that there are some really great alternatives out there For, for example, on my podcast, Sustainability Defined, we interviewed the Cleantech Startup Sway, which is a company that is using seaweed as an alternative for, uh, shipping materials that are made out of plastic, petroleum-based plastic.

So they have partnered with a lot of distribution and logistic companies as well as some retail companies to incorporate those materials into their shipping streams. And it’s a really cool company. They all their materials that are made outta seaweed, our backyard, like home compostable.

So. I mean, it’s just, it comes from the ocean and it’s gonna go right back into the dirt. So I think there’s some really cool alternatives out there. They’re really innovative. Um, I’ve also seen some other stuff made out of other materials, but seaweed sticks out to me for sure. It’s, it’s got a lot of uses in every day life.

Yeah, I’ve, I’ve certainly seen some biodegradable some biodegradable being used and I hope that those can be encouraged. I think. You know, government and big business needs to be pushed a bit to start moving in that direction as, um, to get those companies off the ground and give them some support.

Um, you know, naturally, you know, sometimes in doing so, we may pick some companies that don’t, uh, pan out, but that’s kind of just part of the process is that we continue to, to, uh, push these solutions for sustainable plastics further, because we’re all kind of dying in the sea of, of plastics. We all..

Right.

…Adjusting plastics into our body. It…

Mm-hmm. It’s scary.

Yeah, we all have…

It is really scary.

…a credit card size

Saw that I, yes, I saw that statistic. That one is the scariest one to me, I think.

It’s crazy.

Yeah, it is really crazy. And another, another one I found shocking, uh, was that the cooking utensils that you cook with that are made outta plastic, the darker the plastic means, the more times it’s been reused and the more dangerous it can be for you. ’cause you’re consuming some of those particles. So, so Watch out for that as well.

Yeah, not, not cooking, uh, plastics and microwaves or things like that because the plastics are kind of breaking down into the food and…

Mm-hmm.

…changing our body chemistry and hormones and stuff. It’s…

Yeah.

It’s downright scary, so don’t put microwaves in the, uh, plastic, microwave utensils in there and cook, cook with it. Not good.

Not good at all. Not good at all. And that’s kind of what I found really interesting about, you know, the topic of sustainability, environmental science, climate change. It’s that it’s in every aspect of every industry, sector, field, um, study really. ’cause this is, Public health, and there’s also business and policy and sociology. It’s really interesting stuff. I love it.

So, yeah, I haven’t heard, uh, too many people talk about the sociological aspects of maybe adoption of different, uh, maybe more sustainable practices, uh, based on sociology and, and, uh, what has, uh, what is your study about that revealed for you?

Yeah. Um, I, I took some interesting classes in my undergraduate that made me interested in this topic, and it’s sort of how people, it’s based a lot on culture and religion and how those different aspects in their respective religions and cultures can really shape how they view.
Climate change and the challenges that come with it and how they may respond. Um, there’s some more collective societies and there’s some more individualistic societies, and the way that they, you know, band together and respond to challenges can be very different.

I have read some really interesting books. Like Braiding Sweetgrass is a really popular book in this space where it talks about how Native American culture really prioritized, you know, passing the land on to next generations better than you found it.

Um, I find that really beautiful. I think taking care of the land is something that, tends to get overseen a little bit, especially with large scale industrial agriculture and a lot of, you know, business consumption in terms of resources.

So culture definitely plays a role into that as well, I think especially when you outsource a lot of materials to support businesses and needs of society. Um. Um, you know, it it can it can be challenging because it’s a global, global issue and a global concept.

Well, shifting culture is a challenging thing, and I guess, uh. I I’m curious as to your thoughts as to how we shift the consumer culture here in the US to be more of this, uh, seven generation culture, which is looking out into the future and saying, Hey, how am I stewarding the land, s that, um, seven generations from now, the, my forebearers will be in better shape than, than I am now.

Yeah. Um, this one keeps me up at night. This question is the one that I, you know, struggle with the most because over consumption is just something that is just so deeply embedded in the us I think entirely it’s, and I think social media has a really big role to play in that.

Um, they’re always putting out, you know, the next best thing that you need to get or you need to try this product or a lot of business’ core business models, um, are about always upgrading to the next best product and fixing the product to, so you have to get a new one. Um, apple comes to mind when I, when I speak to this, but. Yeah, I don’t know how businesses and you know, policy or society can go about this. This one scares me, I think.

Yeah, I mean, you’d take a a product like the iPhone and. I had read that it takes as much energy to make an iPhone as it makes the same amount of energy as making a refrigerator. So…

Oh wow.

It’s kind of mind blowing that…

That is mind blowing.

Is, makes, takes as much energy as a refrigerator make. And, and then I think about how many iPhones I’ve swapped out. That’s like 10 refrigerators or something like that, that, um, you know, we don’t change a refrigerator for 20 years exactly. iPhones like every couple years is, is crazy how much, uh, energy we’re expending. Um. As a corporate citizen, wouldn’t Apple be better serving us by not kind of making it necessary to, to buy a new iPhone, which is so inefficient.

Right. I’m tired of buying the new iPhone, for example. I wish we could just, you know, go to the store and get it fixed. That would be, that would make sense to me. Then you could have some sort of subscription. You know, pricing where you go and you get your iPhone fixed. But I’ve actually seen this done in the tech space before.

There’s this company that does this with computers and. Every single part is made for you to be able to buy it on the website and replace it yourself down to like the keys and the keyboard. And one of my friends in the program actually had this computer, I forget the name, but it was super cool. I mean, it was a really large computer also because. it had to be able to be completely replaced.

That is fascinating. I think, uh. Hey, in the future, hopefully more companies will be thinking that way and, and, uh, shift kind of the culture on on consumption. Consumption consumption. And, and it’s challenging because our, our business system is based upon. More money, more profits every quarter driving more, more, more.

And I, I, I don’t know how we change that to make it a more sustainable model saying, Hey, uh, gross national product is an outdated statistic. Why don’t we look at, at a another basket of things like health, the environment. Those are important things that are just not even part of gross national product.

They, they don’t factor into it. So our health, our happiness, our, you know, the emotional well being, uh, of the country is not considered, just look at the gross national product.
Yeah, that you bring up such a great point. I mean, is that how they’re measuring our happiness, I guess with the GDP…

Right?

If we’re, if we’re making more money, therefore we’re, we’re good. Uh.

Apparently.

Uh, so tell us about, uh, your podcast and how you got involved in it and, and some of the things that you’ve learned or impactful moments and what you’re hoping to accomplish there.

Yes, happy, happy to talk about the podcast. Um, so the podcast name is Sustainability Defined. Our little group of listeners, we call them definers. So Definers, if you’re listening. Hey, how’s it going? And I got involved with the podcast because Scott, Breen, the creator of the podcast and co-host. Of nine years. Uh, his co-host was Jay Siegel.

As I mentioned before, Scott Breen came to give a guest lecture at Georgetown during my master’s program, and he mentioned that he wanted to pass on the role of co-host to someone that was, you know, young and starting in the field to give them some experience and be able to develop their network.

Because the podcast, I mean, I, I mean so many people like you through podcasting, you get to talk to a lot of people in the sustainability space. It’s been really great to talk to a lot of people. But yeah, so I applied to the position on the website after he said that in my, in the guest lecture and interviewed. And then I met my co-host, Nara. Hey Nara, if you’re listening. And yeah, we met through the podcast and we’ve become friends.

It was really fun. We, we actually met like two episodes in after recording, so we recorded episodes before. Every meeting in person, which was interesting, I think. Um, and then we met in person during the Airbus Summit that we went to in Toulu, which was really fun. We got to learn a lot about how aviation is working to, you know, adapt to some of the sustainability challenges.

Um, as an airplane manufacturing company, it was really cool to see how they’re incorporating a lot of sustainability into their supply chain and logistics. So I think that was where I have learned the most in my podcasting experience. That was really cool. We got to talk to, um, the CEO and the Chief Sustainability Officer, Julie. She was super cool and we interviewed them.

Um, and put out an episode with their interviews on the podcast as well as some really cool engineers in from Airbus that were coming up with how planes can fly to minimize drag. Um, so then that would decrease fuel consumption so they would fly in like a geese formation, which was really cool to learn about. Yeah, I think that was some of the coolest things I’ve learned. It was really fun.

That is pretty fascinating. Getting to, uh, interview the CEO of Airbus is, uh, is a big coup well done. Uh, and biggest companies in the world, and as you said, uh, an important piece of the puzzle in terms of sustainability.

Um, uh, one of the things that I, I know they were researching is whether they could use hydrogen as a fuel. I’m not sure if they’re gonna. Roll that out. I’ve heard some, uh, I read some things that they might not, but, uh, I’m curious as to, you may have had a chance to talk to the CEO about that.

We talked to one of the engineers behind this project, she talked about how this hydrogen fuel cell technology works and it was really fascinating. They actually did build a zero e flight, which is a zero emission flight.

It was a very small plane, um, covered in solar panels. So those solar panels would charge the battery, which would then, um, I guess propel. Hydrogen fuel cell technology in the plane. Um, what I know about this project is that they are pushing it for, for it to come out in line with industry net zero goals by 2050.

Um, previously they had hoped to put out the first commercial airplane with hydrogen fuel cell technology by 2035, but I think they have delayed this goal, I think up to 10 years. Um, just based off limitations in technology and operations, logistics, et cetera.

But they have built a really cool network of hydrogen hubs, um, around airports globally, where airplanes can go, you know, be charged with this hydrogen technology because it requires a completely different engine and a completely different way to power the plane. I mean, just put it in flight. So it was really cool to learn about that.

Yeah, for the listeners, I guess, uh, the hydrogen fuel cell, uh, its emissions are H2O. So instead of emitting CO2, it’s emitting H2O, which is, um, water. And, uh, not a problem as far as pollution wise.

So it would be truly remarkable if, if this could be used and it would, it would reduce emissions pretty dramatically in the aviation field. So…

Mm-hmm.

One of the things that I, I repeat fairly frequently is that Caesar Chavez’s statement that every dollar that we spend is a vote. If we’re spending our dollars wisely on more sustainable products, then we’re voting essentially…

Right.

And every, every vote counts, every dollar that we spend and where we spend it counts And, and really sp sending the message to manufacturers with everything that we buy.

Uh huh.

… support is sustainable products and that that’s important as a consumer to, to, uh, support the manufacturers who are doing their best to produce sustainable products.

Yeah. Now I’m, I’m so glad you said this because my cohost RA’s favorite phrase, and we say this every single episode is Vote with Your Dollar. Um. I mean, it’s, I think it’s some of the best advice up on how to incorporate sustainability into your everyday life.

And you know, on the topic of aviation, not to talk about this more, but for example, a lot of companies like United Delta and American Airlines, you can choose for the more sustainable option where it’ll say like, oh, if you spend this much more and you choose this like green ticket or sustainable ticket, the green premium, and it emits, you know, this.

Much less CO2. All that money is just funds to push some of these innovative projects forward, like the hydrogen fuel cell technology. So that’s a good way to vote with your dollar in this space.

Yeah. Excellent idea. Um, tell us, uh, some of the other things that you’re hoping to do. Uh, with your podcast and who, who is your target audience and how are you working to expand, uh, the reach of your program?

So our target audience, I think is a very diverse, um, we, the way our episodes are formatted is we start off with an explainer segment of a topic. For example, aviation, not to bring it up again, but so we would explain what’s happening in this industry. Um. What are its effects in terms of climate change and, you know, what are some areas for improvement? And then, uh, after the explainer segment, we have the industry expert interview.

So we bring on someone, for example, the Chief Sustainability Officer from Airbus, and we will ask them some more niche questions, um, about the subject. So the way the episode is formatted is for it to be, you know, if I was just a listener who didn’t know anything about the topic or anything about environmental science, I could just learn about that entire subject just by listening to the episode.

So it’s sort of like a conversational lecture, I guess we really try not to make it like a lecture. Um, sometimes it can be hard, but me and Nathan have a lot of fun with it. We incorporate a lot of fun little segments into the explainer and my parents listened to it and they, you know, didn’t study environmental science and they’ve been learning a lot about it, and now they know a lot about like topics like plastic pollution and the seaweed alternative, or how SPF can be, you know, harming coral reefs and what ingredients to look out for.

So it’s just meant to be. Listened by people that wanna learn about the subject. That’s our audience and where we are hoping to take it is to bring, you know, more industry experts to talk about niche things and sustainability. Um, more diverse audience. I guess. We just really want to expand the people that listened to the podcast so more people can learn about sustainability. That’s, that’s the goal. Just defining sustainability, one bad joke and one topic at a time. That’s our tagline.

That’s, that’s great. Yeah. I, I think that making it digestible. Making it something that, uh, people like to listen to and learn. Uh, I, I know that I’ve just learned so much in the process of doing the podcast over this four and a half years, and I remember, uh, breaking out the IPCC report, um, back like six years ago and trying to, to learn and seeing Holy moly, it, this is a lot a lot of stuff.

This, take a lot of study to, to get up to speed on this. And not that I’m anywhere near the finish line, but. I, I feel like I’ve learned, and I think anybody that listens to the show eventually will pick some stuff up and, and that’s, that’s really the goal of the show for us, is to just make it educational, make it fun, and, uh, make it entertaining to, to wanna listen to.

Exactly. I I totally agree with that. I love that. And it’s, you know, also giving tips on how to vote with your dollar.

And just a reminder, hey, every day this is an opportunity to, to make some votes. um, because. as much as I’ve said that. Sometimes I’m in the grocery store and I’m not, I’m not actually thinking that way. So it, it takes, it takes reminders to just say, okay, yeah, today I can do this. Today I can, I can push the needle a little bit in this direction and, and every little bit helps.

Yeah, for sure. Um, but we talk about this on our podcast as well, sustainability defined, um, where we say, you know incorporating sustainability into your life isn’t going to be seamlessly perfect. There’s gonna be ups and downs, and it’s not about being perfect and you know, always buying organic or locally sourced. It’s just about making a conscious effort to make more sustainable choices, and that’s what really matters.

So, uh, I guess I have a couple of other questions for you. One is I’ve, I’ve heard it mentioned by a number of different guests that really the most important thing we can do is public policy stuff to change laws. Uh. And change things like that. And that our like efforts to recycle and things of that nature are secondary because, um, the real big changes need to be made at a public policy level.

I tend to think that we need to be doing both simultaneously as, um, because you know, if we’re practicing those principles, we’re more likely to find people that, and public servants that are aligned with those values, uh, rather than saying, oh, just outsource it to Washington, or outsource it to the state capitals or local government. Um, that’s, that’s kind of lacking in responsibility and lacking in focus. So tell us what your thoughts are on, on that.

Yeah, I think public policy has huge role to play in, you know, adapting society to. The global challenges and complexities of climate change. But I also think that we as consumers have such a large role to play in it as well, because we can really put pressure on corporations to do better and politicians to do better.

I think, you know, we may feel really small just as you know, people that don’t have a large role to play in like government or corporations or something like that. But I think the masses can speak a lot and you know, society has already been putting a large pressure on companies to be more responsible and ethical.

A lot of companies have been working with labels and certifications more now than ever, so I think. Yeah, policy has a a large role to play, but I think also policy can take a long time to make changes. So I don’t know if that would be the fastest avenue to adaptation.

I’m, I’m just wondering if you, uh, know of some, you know, people who are influencers out in the, in the social media space that are really kind of, uh, you know, hot in some way, you know, getting a lot of traction, who are talking about sustainability and who are talking about these issues.

And, and if people of your generation are, are listening to those folks, um, or if they’re being drowned out by people selling. Um, you know, whatever lipstick and, you know, more consumable items.

To be completely honest, I do think that they are getting drowned out by. You know, the really big influencers, the really big influencers just have such a large following that and you know, large partnerships with big brands that a lot of the sustainability influencers, I think they’re a little bit smaller and more niche, but there are some really good influencers out there still that maybe they don’t talk about sustainability.

So, in such a transparent way, but they incorporate some of the things about sustainable living into their, uh, media. For example, ballerina farm. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her.

No, I haven’t.

Okay. She’s a little bit controversial to, I guess, my generation just because of ballerina farm. I’m not gonna dive deep into it, but, you know, she has a farm and she will make ingredients from scratch. I mean, not ingredients. Uh. She’ll make meals from scratch. Like she’ll make her own milk and butter and bread.

And I think now there’s such a large movement in my generation to stop consuming so many chemicals that are being sold to us in grocery stores, like very heavily processed bread. People are now super into making their own sourdough bread. Like it’s a, it’s a movement. Sourdough is literally a movement and everyone loves to make sourdough now. So. You know, it’s little by little, but I’m hopeful.

Well that’s, that is good. There’s, there’s, uh, green, green grass starting to grow and, and, uh, roots of hope, uh, are, are. Are coming up. So let’s encourage that and, and everybody go out there and do what they can to be, uh, a little bit more sustainable today. And do, do the, do the things that are within our grasp today and, and also make some moves for something a little more, uh, substantial.

If you can reach out to some public official, maybe locally, um, maybe on a national basis. But it doesn’t have to be it, it may be somebody just in the neighborhood who. Can help, you know, who’s your city council member or, or state representative can have a, an impact if, if we talk to them.

Definitely, definitely. Um, some of the best advice I’ve gotten, and it was from an interviewee we had on the podcast. Her name was Yoka. She was from Toing Choco, only a chocolate company that is, you know, works in chocolate, but they, their focus is really on minimizing child labor in their supply chain and making it more ethical. But. her advice was to be courageous, brave, and impatient.

And I think I, I love that piece of advice. I love it so much. I take it everywhere with me. I go, I share it all the time. It’s, it’s so nice to think about sustainability in that way. And I think, you know, the younger generations are brave and impatient and courageous because they’re making moves and they’re asking things and they’re tired of the way that things have been done, like heavily processed bread. So I’m excited to see where this is gonna go.

Yeah. Well, I, I’m excited too. Thank you for being on the program. Everybody should tune into your podcast, uh, sustainability defined and become a definer.

Yes. Join us.

Great work and, uh, keep it up. So thank you again.

Thank you, Matt. Great work. You as well. Four years. Good. Good. job.

So tell us, uh, where we can find your podcast.

Yeah, the podcast is on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. We also have a website, www.sustainabilitydefined.com. You can stream the episodes there. We are on Instagram and LinkedIn at Sustainability Defined where we always try to post some funny content, but still educational. You know, just Nathan and I having a chat. Join us.

Okay. That’s great. Uh, tell us, uh. Maybe give us one last, uh, bit of, uh, your inspiration. Who are, who would be on your Mount Rushmore of, uh, of characters in the environmental movement that have, uh, inspired you.

This is, I love this question. What a good question. Okay. Uh, Mike’s gonna be a little silly, but definitely the Lorax, Dr. Seuss, He’s going on there. I love him. Uh, I like Teddy Roosevelt. I love a national park

I, I’ve gotta ask a follow up question on the so why the latter?

Why the Lorax? Where do I start? Um, the Lorax inspired me so much. I mean, as a kid, as an adult, I love the Lorax. I love everything that he stands for. He’s not only super cute and, but he stands and speaks for the trees and, you know he did his best and he inspired a newer generation. He passed the torch, which I think is such animportant aspect of, you know, I don’t know, getting better as a society, not only sustainability, but just in every aspect. I love the Lorax.

Go Lorax.

Yes, go Lorax. He’s gonna be my Halloween costume.

I have to go check out, uh, the Lorax again. ’cause you know, it’s been a while since I read that, uh, book. So it’s not front of mind. I, I kind of have a vague recollection of the Lorax, but not…

Okay.

The movie is really good. I love the movie. The Lorax…

Oh, Zach Efron is in it too.

You know, that, that, that puts it up at least two notches, uh, with Zach Efron in it.

Yeah. Yeah. Two, Two, to five notches. Hmm.

He’s an environmental guy. He did a, a show up…

He is an environmental guy. I don’t know if he would be on my Mount Rushmore per se, but maybe a runner up. Um, next on my Mount Rushmore, I think Teddy Roosevelt, I love what he did for the national parks.

Yeah.

Who else? Rachel Carson. She’s a classic. Silent Spring. Can’t go wrong with that. Um, I would put up my professor, Dr. McMahon. I don’t know if she’d be listening to this. She was my undergraduate environmental science professor. She was such an iconic lady. I, I mean, I’m speechless. I don’t know what to say about her.

She had a farm, you know, one time we got an email and she was like, Guys, I’m, I’m running a bit late to class. I’ll be about 30 minutes late, so start without me read a chapter. And then she just sent in a selfie in that email of her trying to move this cow in the middle of the road. And I was like, wow. I love her. Yeah. How many people do I have left on my Mount Rushmore? Do I have to hit a certain limit?

I, you hit four. That’s the traditional, but I, I don’t know. I don’t know why we need to stop. You know, if you have a number five, let’s throw it up there.

Let me think. Do I have a number five? I think I’m good with those four. I like those four.
That’s great. Uh, and, uh, I have to say the Lorax is, is, uh, the best one I’ve heard from all the people that I’ve asked that question to.

Thank you. He’s my number one.

Well done on the Lorax. And with that, we’re gonna wrap. Uh, thank you everybody for tuning in and, uh, tune into Cecilia’s, uh, podcast Sustainability Defined.

Yes. See you on Sustainability Defined, and thank you, Matt, for having me. It was a great conversation.

Yeah, great talking with you.

Likewise.